Senior NOAA researchers are being forced out. Is Trump 'killing science'?

As part of its concerted effort to shrink government agencies, the Trump administration has choked off funding to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. The cuts have forced scientists who've done groundbreaking work here in the Northwest to leave their positions. Seattle Times environment reporter Lynda Mapes talked to KUOW’s Kim Malcolm about some of the scientists leaving the agency.

This interview has been edited for clarity.

Kim Malcolm: Remind us what steps the government has taken to date, and how they have affected NOAA staffers here in Seattle.

So, this is quite dramatic. The Trump administration set travel budgets, purchasing power and credit cards to $1. They also, through the Office of Personnel Management, reached out to NOAA to offer so-called voluntary early retirement to anyone who wants to take it. They also laid off so-called provisional employees. These very often were people with not much experience. The result of these three actions, limiting the budget, offering early retirement, and eliminating provisional employment, wow, this has taken a devastating toll on the number of people working at NOAA on crucial science

About how many people have left so far?

Let's talk about the Northwest Fisheries Science Center, which is a flagship of research based in Seattle. There were about 200 people in that office. Thirty people, nearly all of them senior scientists, took the buyout offer a week ago, all at once.

You focused on several scientists who are leaving. Tell us about Sarah Morley and her expertise.

I worked with Sarah in the field back when the Elwha Dam removal was just beginning. The idea was to get a baseline condition of the Elwha before dam removal, so you could see the change over time. This is crucial, basic science, and Sarah held down the end of the research that had everything to do with the food web in the benthos, that's the bottom of the river, so that you could understand the food web before and after dam removal.

Here's what that looks like in real life. You're staking a little net in the river using rebar and a piece of net. You're standing in the cold flow. You're positioning this net. You're gathering little, tiny beasties from the benthos, rinsing it off into a collection bottle, analyzing it in the lab to see the diversity of life, the tiny little things that feed everything else.

So, not the most glamorous work, but absolutely critical.

Absolutely critical. And the thing I love about Sarah is her enthusiasm for these unsung heroes of the ecosystem. I mean, without these little, tiny lives, you don't get all the glamorous lives, the Chinook salmon, and, of course, the orcas that eat the Chinook. This is the bottom of the food web. This is where it all happens, and this is where we saw some of the most dramatic shifts in the Elwha. And we never would have known that without her work.

How does Sarah see what's happening at NOAA? How does she reflect on it?

She's immensely saddened by it. To her, this is not about saving money. This is about silencing people. This is about killing science.

Something I was struck by in your piece was just the range of people at different stages in their careers who are leaving NOAA. Can you explain why it's important for more experienced scientists to be working with younger researchers who are just starting out?

These mature scientists — who have spent decades in the field, decades in the lab, who have seen it all, done it all — they are the generation that passes on their knowledge to the fresh, young blood coming into these agencies. It's like any other field of endeavor that relies on accumulated knowledge and experience and expertise. These are the elders of the scientific community who were and are crucially needed to pass on what they know, what they've learned about how to do this vital work, not only in the field, but in the lab, and in the community. This agency cannot do its work without a budget and without people.

What have NOAA administrators said so far about these departures and these cuts?

Well, this is the fact-free environment that we're working in right now. Phone calls are not returned. Details are not discussed. The administration doesn't respond to our inquiries in the press, beyond these bland non-statements about "personnel matters won't be explained," and it's a very unsatisfying black box of no information, or misinformation.

Listen to the interview by clicking the play button above.